HONDA NC700X

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gunshot72
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Re: HONDA NC700X

By the way, those who would like or prefer a gear position indicator for the NC700X you can buy the Healtech Electronics GPDS-H01 which Healtech confirm works on the NC700X. Not cheap though at about £100.

shuggiemac
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Re: HONDA NC700X

The Scottoiler is a great bit of kit - both the V (Vacuum) System and the E (Electronic) System. Every engine has a vacuum take off point, though you may have to make it for yourself. As mentioned though the newer e-system does not need a vacuum take off.

Pitsy - I would not exactly agree with the notion that the V-System is a gravity system. OK if the valve was opened then oil would flow but in reality it would do so incredibly slowly, as to be all but useless. The vacuum does not just lift a valve and let the oil flow under the whim of gravity, it actuates a pump inside the reservoir that is needed to flow the oil along the delivery tubes.

Rocker indeed the price of an e-system does buy a lot of chain lube. It however does not buy you time and to this day I have never found all the mucking about and time required to lube a chain properly be valuable moments well spent. That plus the fact that 99.999% of people will not lube their chain with the spray on gloop often enough. I also believe that something that lubes the chain constantly to be better than a solution that starts to lose its effectiveness the second you start moving.

As I have openly stated many times, the business my wife and I run imports Scottoilers to this country. The reason we do it is because I was a customer for many, many years/bikes before I ever entered the bike business. It was the first product I selected when the company was new and I did so because it is one I knew was very good and truly added value to the biking experience. Quite frankly the condition that they leave my chain in, without the need for anything more than topping up the reservoir every x thousand kilometres, makes a chain and Scottoiler my preferred method of drive. It is also why I have never been convinced by shaft drive as this method all but negates any advantage that it has, in my eyes, leaving only the negatives.

shuggiemac
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Re: HONDA NC700X

Edgey - if you have any issue with the Touring kit then feel free to drop me a line and I'll try to help or alternatively call Scottoiler direct in Milngavie and they will sort you out. Top guys and gals there, every single one of 'em.

edgey999
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Re: HONDA NC700X

shuggiemac wrote:
Edgey - if you have any issue with the Touring kit then feel free to drop me a line and I'll try to help or alternatively call Scottoiler direct in Milngavie and they will sort you out. Top guys and gals there, every single one of 'em.

Hi

The only problem i have is that the design of the NC engine precludes the fitting of the Touring Kit (So Honda say). My only option appears to be pay for the e system and attach it to the touring kit. This would be way to expensive, for my wife, so is out of the question.

If you have any contacts at Scottoiler who know differently I am all ears and open to any suggestions :-)

Captain Scarlet
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Re: HONDA NC700X

I spray my chain every five hundred miles (takes five minutes) and 3,000 miles later the chain still doesn't need adjusting. I've have had a Scottoiler professionally fitted to my bike before (I'd forgotten, it was on a Sprint ST), and whilst convenient, for me I don't think it was worth the outlay. I.e. I don't personally think they extend chain life, any more than a regular manual lubing, modern material have done that for us. I'd much sooner spent money where it needs it personally, or go with a cheap Loobman option. But for those convinced they need it, I would say that it does match the makers claims in terms of operational use.

pittsy
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Re: HONDA NC700X

How does the Scottoiler vSystem Motorbike Chain Oiler Work?

The oil is simply siphoned from the reservoir by gravity, the engine vacuum provides the power to open the valve and the dial at the top allows you to adjust the flow rate by opening/closing the valve aperture.

Rocker66
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Re: HONDA NC700X

As I will be using the NC mainly for my commute it will only take 5-10 min at work to to give it a spray. at least I will be getting paid for my time :)

rocca
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Re: HONDA NC700X

Tried the eSystem when it first came out. Spent the better part of a day meticulously routing wires, trimming tubes, seeking out the most stealthy place for the reservoir, zip tying everything to perfection-

Half of it had to come off when the control unit was diagnosed in need of a software upgrade. Ditto a couple of weeks later, when it packed up completely (big single vibes were the prime suspect, according to the friendly bunch at Scottoiler HQ). I formed the impression at the time that the kit wasn't exactly problem-free, though things may have improved after a few more years' worth in-service beta testing.

And I've never been able to adjust a Scottoiler of any description to eliminate what I consider to be an excessive amount of oil fling (though that may have more to do with unreasonable expectations of lab-standard rear wheel cleanliness on my part).

Scottoiler sceptics and fling-o-phobics may or may not care to be advised that this is the best spray I've ever used (tip for those about to venture forth into the snowy wastes: the can needs dunking in a bucket of warm water for 10 mins before application): http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/Products/productsresults/Parts-accesso...

edgey999
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Re: HONDA NC700X

Hi

I cannot express how lazy (and cheap) I am.

I do not want to pay for a centre stand (I am sure I used to get those free in the old days) and I hate anything to do with cleaning, washing, scrubbing or lubing chains. I have used spray can lube and frankly it is a boring, time consuming and generally inefective process thats appears to deposit more lube on the back tyre/wheel than the chain.

I have always used a Loobman in the past and have found it to be a very effective system for oiling a chain but looks like a piece of old tat on the bike. My record was 35k on an O ring chain fitted to a CBR600.

I fitted the Scottoiler to the ER6 which in all honesty was not really any better at oiling the chain than the Loobman but did look better, had a better range and was automatic (hell I cant even be bothered to squeeze a plastic bottle once a day, how lazy am i FFS!). I was quite miffed that it cant be fitted to the NC but hey, lifes a bitch so move on.

I am trying the Tutoro as I am a bit of a soft touch for a gadget, its won a Ride award, its cheap (like me according to the wife)and appears to look a bit better than a Loobman. Hell it could be a piece of old tat for all i know but the only way to be sure is to give it a go and find out.

It will arrive Wednesday and assuming I pick the NC up tomorrow I will fit it Wednesday PM. If its a piece of crap I will post here and let everyone know, if its a top piece of kit I will do the same.

unconventional rebel
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Re: HONDA NC700X

I first used a scottoiler many years ago on a GS550 that eat chains for lunch. It made a huge difference (more than doubled the chain milage) so I've used them on all chain drive bikes since without any problems. I've always assumed they make the same difference, I don't have to adjust chains much anyway. The bit of extra oil splashed about the rear wheel is just welcome rust proofing in my book, it's never really bothered me much.

Having said that my present DL1000 came already fitted with one (one of the things that made me chose that particular bike) that has now become incontinent... I just set it to zero and turn it up on long journeys now.

I also use spray lube on the outside of chains too to try and keep the salt from turning my beloved chain into a rusty eyesore. Just do it every couple of months.

gunshot72
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Re: HONDA NC700X

Each to their of course but I cannot stand auto chain oilers of any kind. I find them expensive to buy and maintain, too cumbersome to fit and generally more mess then they are worth. I've had three previous used bikes with them fitted where I've taken them off as soon as I've bought them. I prefer the traditional method of spray lube every 300 miles, a monthly degrease which takes no more than 10 minutes and a good coating of ACF50 on the inner and outer plates now and again which keeps all traces of surface rust away.

Captain Scarlet
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Re: HONDA NC700X

I bought a mate a dual-feed Tutoro kit for his birthday based on the RiDE review. He's not mentioned it again, so it was either brilliant, terrible, or still in the box. My guess is the latter! :-D

pittsy
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Re: HONDA NC700X

Cap'n: "......or still in the box. My guess is the latter! :-D"

If you didn't buy him the brackets, it will be! LOL

For what it's worth, I agree with cap'n and gunshot72. Although I can see that perhaps a dribble of oil might tend to "wash" slightly. The sprays do tend to take an appearance of girding paste. I used paraffin to clean the stuff off.

The major turning point in chain life (and method of lubrication) was the O ring.

shuggiemac
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Re: HONDA NC700X

Edgey - I have sent you the Scottoiler contact details by email. Let me know if you get it.

shuggiemac
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Re: HONDA NC700X

Edgey - I have sent you the Scottoiler contact details by email. Let me know if you get it.

edgey999
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Re: HONDA NC700X

shuggiemac wrote:
Edgey - I have sent you the Scottoiler contact details by email. Let me know if you get it.

Hi

Got them thanks. I will contact them and see what they have any ideas.

Thanks very much ;-)

Mark

fishmanboy
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Re: HONDA NC700X

hi all

I have joined the party late so I've not had a chance to read all 8 pages of discussion so sorry if this has been mentioned.

People have made big statements about the MPG not being as good as it could and the weight being too much, but the big paper number that people seemed to have missed for me is the service intervals! Double what I would normally see on my current bike. This might not be of big consequence to most people, but I am a high milage rider (about 17,000 miles a year) and the difference in MPG has less effect then the fact that if I swapped bikes to the NC I would only have to visit the dealer for a service twice a year rather than 4/5 times a year and that makes a big difference.

I'm currently thinking of taking the NC out for a test ride once the snow has gone as it ticks a lot of the boxes my current suzuki SV doesn't (a great bike btw, but not totally suited to my needs). With my rough calculations the difference in running costs works out about £700 a year less for me and thats with the SV being a very frugal bike in the first place (i get around 60mpg and was very cheap to buy). Not to mention the NC will be a damn sight more comfortable and practical as well.

So yes I agree the headline figures don't make earth shattering reading, nor will this be the bike that adorns small boy's bedrooms, but I suspect that in the real world to some people this is the ultimate 2 wheel transport that for me at least could end up paying for itself in a couple of years. I could go on about the hidden virtues of this bike, but I think the people who don't get it will never get it so it will be a waste of time tbh, plus I will reserve full judgement till I have taken it for a test myself as that is the only conclusive way to form a truly valid opinion.... I love the fact that this can divide opinion so much lol :-)

Oh as or the comments of the MPG not being that much better than the BWMs.... take a look at the list prices of the two as a starting point.... if I could afford to buy the Beemer as everyday transport I might not care about MPG in the first place haha

gunshot72
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Re: HONDA NC700X

Hey fishmanboy, I'm not sure it's mentioned before either like you say I can't be bothered to look through the last 8 pages of this topic! However, I totally agree with you and the service intervals being at 8000 miles is also one of the main reasons I will go with the NC when my CBR600F sells.

With mpg being the main factor for a change of bike, I looked at and tried BMW's including the F800GS, F800ST, plus a Tiger 800 and 800XC. They were all nice but I disregarded the two Beemers as soon as I talked to the dealers about service intervals and prices. The F800GS I tried returned 46 mpg on 90 mph motorway testing, so no where near as claimed by everyone it seems. The Tigers were both worse than this at 41-43. Now, I realise for myself at least that these figures would be slightly better on a commute rather than motorway blasts but I do require my new bike to tour twice a year as well so motorway mpg at realistic speeds is important.

Getting back to the service intervals, the Beemers were reasonable at 6000 miles but the costs were stupid. It alternates so an oil and filter change only at 6000, 18,000 and so on but this is £200! For oil and filter! The 12,000, 24,000 etc is £400! Factor in also that on the F800ST BMW recommend the belt drive is changed at only 24,000 miles. It costs £350 + the service costs! People keep telling me how great a belt or shaft drive is but I'm not convinced for two reasons - Neither can be fixed roadside very easily, even more so for a shaft, and the repair costs are astronomical. Chains are easy and in my opinion still the best way to drive a rear wheel. I'm also told shafts never break but they are plenty of R1200GS's that think otherwise. Out of warranty shaft drive replacement on a GS? £2000!

Even if these higher service costs were lower I here plenty of issues with BMW quality but I accept that only bad stories hit the internet, not the good ones. I have nothing against BMW bikes but I think their quality and reliability is suspect against what they claim their bikes are.

I for one am not bothered by a BMW badge on my bike. Some people just cannot get on a bike without this badge! Good luck to them but I've had a few Hondas and I'm totally confident in their reliability and low cost of maintenance and therefore ownership. Given the NC700X/S is built in Japan we should have no reason to suspect it won't be as good as every other Jap Honda over the past many decades.

Good luck with your choice.

Rocker66
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Re: HONDA NC700X

Hi fishmanboy That's what I really like to see someone who goes into a road test with an open mind. too many people judge a bike before they have ridden it

Captain Scarlet
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Re: HONDA NC700X

Welcome aboard fishmanboy! I agree with your and gunshots comments. I'm largely a fan of belt drive. But I've read so much doom and gloom about belts and shaft-drives lately that I too and beginning to think that simple chains are not the root of all evil after all!

I would say of the BMW servicing that £200 for an oil and filter change probably won't 'just' be for that; there will be many other things the mechanic will be checking, they are just the sundries we see listed when we pay. If we serviced it ourselves, then we might think it's just an oil and filter change! But if you ask to see the list of the things that they will check, it's usually quite extensive and many BMW dealers perform additional checks above and beyond what the manufacturers request as a minimum too. I'm not defending the costs, just saying that there's probably more to it than just pulling the oil filter and topping the oil up again!

unconventional rebel
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Re: HONDA NC700X

Captain Scarlet wrote:
I've read so much doom and gloom about belts and shaft-drives lately that I too and beginning to think that simple chains are not the root of all evil after all!

Never had a belt so can't comment, however I have had extensive experience of shaft drives from Japan and some from Italy, and at the risk of tempting fate somewhat, never had a problem, despite a good few high milers. If I did I'd go to a breakers, plenty of good ones survive the rest of the bike.

I think modern chains are a great deal better than they used to be, but also that a fair percentage of the improvement is simply down to the fact that few bikes go out to play in the rain and winter salt today. Go back a bit and the majority were used as regular transport year round. In my experience chains fair well in sunny dry weather but pretty badly in winter, it's here that shaft drives really come into their own.

As the NC700 is a commuter bike I'd have thought shaft would be a default option (never heard of a Honda shaft drive problem in the last 40 odd years) only not used because of the weight.

edgey999
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Re: HONDA NC700X

Hi

Inital feelings after a couple of hundred miles

Fuel consumption - 79mpg :-)

Good points

Comfortable, much quicker than its weight/power figure suggest, GREAT gearbox (dont waste your money on the DCT), great riding position, really easy to ride, handling is safe, good quality (see below), good clocks, brilliant fuel consumption (70mph = 3300rpm)

Bad points

Seat is "BMW Firm" (might be numb bum after a couple of hours), suspension can get harsh over poor surfaces, fuel cap and rear seat stay are "cheap", indicator switch position needs some getting used to, radiator is very exposed (getting an R&G rad cover). Thats it

Overall

If you are looking for a cheap to run, cheap to buy, well built, comfortable commuter/all rounder this is a good choice. I am very happy, so far........

PS Tutoro chain oiler is A1 (for £17 lol)

pittsy
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Re: HONDA NC700X

UcR: "As the NC700 is a commuter bike I'd have thought shaft would be a default option"

Cost prohibitive?

Otherwise I go along fully with what you've said.

Modern chains are definitely light years ahead of, say, pre mid eighties period. I've owned all three types, belt, shaft and chain (O ring & non O ring!). Pros and cons, like all things engineering. Life would be boring otherwise.

Captain Scarlet
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Re: HONDA NC700X

I've had two belt-drive bikes and six shaft-drive. All were effectively faultless. However, although likely to change in the future, I usually change my bikes before troubling 10,000 miles on the odometer.

I agree modern chains are significantly better (stronger, less stretch prone) nowadays. And I essentially live in a dry and warm climate, rather than salt strewn Blighty, which can but help. My 3k miler Diavel has never been caught in the rain and still doesn't need it's first ever adjustment yet, although I do consider myself a smooth rider rather than stunt monkey.

I too am surprised the NC700 isn't shaft drive. Of course it adds weight, but the bike isn't light to start with. It's also available off the shelf, the Shadow Phantom 750 (custom thingamy) would probably fit right in with nary a farkle adjustment. I guess it's a cost thing. Buyers of the bike are cost conscious. However typically, owners of the NC are going to be long term owners, so are more concerned with economy and on-going running costs than the RRP, I would imagine. So it really surprise me that they didn't. Still, as my Honda dealer says, 'you can't tell them anything'!

That 79 MPG is a great figure, especially in the land of 'ow-much?' fuel! :-D

Good to see a vote of confidence for the Tutoro - I'll have to ask my mate if he used the dual-feed one I bought him. If it's gathering dust I might have to liberate it from him! ;-D

edgey999
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Re: HONDA NC700X

Hi

Ref Tutoro

I purchased the frame mounting bracket and didnt need it. I zip tied the tube to the rear frame and ran the feed tube under the swing arm (zip tied). The dual sided feed was then slipped over the sproket as described in the instrustions.

It took me about 2 hours but much of this was me trying to use the bracket since it had cost me a tenner!!

I opened the tap one turn and after 2 hours use it had used about a quarter of the tube of oil. Chain was well oiled but the back wheel wasnt. Perfect.

I have used some 10/40 oil and some 5/30 stuff too. From experience with a Loobman the oil is irrelevant really. I might use some cooking oil as an experiment at some point lol.

My overall view at the moment is, it is a well engineered, well built, smart looking (compared to a Loobman anyway), conveniantly lazy, cheap way to lube my chain.

For £17 it seems like a bargain in all fairness

For the record i do agree with the comments regarding shaft drive (from Deauville experience) BUT chains are fine if they are looked after. On a bike like this I expect to get 30k out of a chain so hardly a big issue.

MP1300GT
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Re: HONDA NC700X

If you consider how heavy Harleys are, their belt drive system is flawless! Never had an issue with my Ultra during 5 years of ownership, and neither have my friends with theirs.

IMHO, belt drive is the best option - except for very high performing bikes.

Just don't understand why more manufacturers aren't using this option?

fishmanboy
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Re: HONDA NC700X

edgey999 wrote:
Hi

Inital feelings after a couple of hundred miles

Fuel consumption - 79mpg :-)

Good points

Comfortable, much quicker than its weight/power figure suggest, GREAT gearbox (dont waste your money on the DCT), great riding position, really easy to ride, handling is safe, good quality (see below), good clocks, brilliant fuel consumption (70mph = 3300rpm)

Bad points

Seat is "BMW Firm" (might be numb bum after a couple of hours), suspension can get harsh over poor surfaces, fuel cap and rear seat stay are "cheap", indicator switch position needs some getting used to, radiator is very exposed (getting an R&G rad cover). Thats it

Overall

If you are looking for a cheap to run, cheap to buy, well built, comfortable commuter/all rounder this is a good choice. I am very happy, so far........

PS Tutoro chain oiler is A1 (for £17 lol)

Glad your enjoying the bike so far chap... its good to get an informed opinion on the bike from someone who is using it.... both good and bad :-)

What sort of ride is your journey? I ask cos mine is about 40 miles of motorway and 10 miles of inner London Traffic

Also good to see that Honda wasn't fibbing about its MPG figures (many do lie about BHP, Weight, MPG, etc so its fairly refreshing... on the flip side my Suzuki SV650 does more MPG than claimed... very strange)

I have spoken to my local Honda dealer and he has one for me to test once the snow has decided to go haha.... I'm half hoping I don't like it so I don't have to part with any more cash lol

gunshot72
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Re: HONDA NC700X

My concerns expressed earlier about belts and shaft drives was more about not being able to easily fix them out in the middle of nowhere. As an ex-enduro bike user taking a spare chain or link on a tour is pretty easy. Admittedly, I've never ran a shaft or belt so have no experience of them. I always take very good care of my chains so expect them to last many years.

Captain Scarlet
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Re: HONDA NC700X

Good recommendation of the Tutoro then. I notice that it's the No.1. preference chain oiler in RIDE's eyes. Shame about the disgraceful waste of the £10 bracket, but you can console yourself with the couple of hundred saved over other systems.

I'm amazed more don't use belt. I liked it on my Harley's and on other bikes I have ridden like the F800ST for instance. It's quiet, smooth, clean, relatively light, long lasting and doesn't need adjustment between services. And if it can shrug off the claimed 100 lb.ft of torque from the latest Harley's it won't be troubled by most mainstream bikes pulling power either. Ideal solution.

Fishy I think you'll like the bike and I hope the snow clears for you soon! Let us know what you think of it if you do.

I'm kind of surprised Honda didn't name the NC700X the 'Marmite', as reading the reviews, the journalists seem to be pretty split between thinking this bike represents either the end or the beginning of the future of motorcycling.

I do think the NC ('New Concept') represents a fresh approach, rather than a catchy marketing phrase. The motorcycling media has largely conned us all into thinking that we need bikes based on 'want', when in actually fact nobody has been making the bikes that we actually 'need', for years now. Whether people like it or not, the trend has some legs in it I think.

Rocker66
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Re: HONDA NC700X

All these positive comments just make me wish that collection day (March 2nd) was much nearer. On the other hand maybe the snow will be gone by then