HONDA NC700X

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edgey999
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Re: HONDA NC700X

fishmanboy wrote:
edgey999 wrote:
Hi

Inital feelings after a couple of hundred miles

Fuel consumption - 79mpg :-)

Good points

Comfortable, much quicker than its weight/power figure suggest, GREAT gearbox (dont waste your money on the DCT), great riding position, really easy to ride, handling is safe, good quality (see below), good clocks, brilliant fuel consumption (70mph = 3300rpm)

Bad points

Seat is "BMW Firm" (might be numb bum after a couple of hours), suspension can get harsh over poor surfaces, fuel cap and rear seat stay are "cheap", indicator switch position needs some getting used to, radiator is very exposed (getting an R&G rad cover). Thats it

Overall

If you are looking for a cheap to run, cheap to buy, well built, comfortable commuter/all rounder this is a good choice. I am very happy, so far........

PS Tutoro chain oiler is A1 (for £17 lol)

Glad your enjoying the bike so far chap... its good to get an informed opinion on the bike from someone who is using it.... both good and bad :-)

What sort of ride is your journey? I ask cos mine is about 40 miles of motorway and 10 miles of inner London Traffic

Also good to see that Honda wasn't fibbing about its MPG figures (many do lie about BHP, Weight, MPG, etc so its fairly refreshing... on the flip side my Suzuki SV650 does more MPG than claimed... very strange)

I have spoken to my local Honda dealer and he has one for me to test once the snow has decided to go haha.... I'm half hoping I don't like it so I don't have to part with any more cash lol

Hi

MY journey consists of a 4 mile A Road journey, 5 miles motorway hop and then a 5 mile A road journey into a busy town centre.

I then use it to travel around the County to visit patients and hospitals.

Its really good in traffic and good for my motorway hop. 40 miles should be fine but i would make sure the NC has enought poke for you.

My fuel consumption is based on some pretty careful riding (always in speed limits) cause I am running it in, sort of.

Good luck with your test ride.

gunshot72
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Re: HONDA NC700X

Well my beloved CBR600F is sold and I intend to order the NC700X in the next couple of weeks. I'm totally sold on the concept and although I had initial doubts coming from a very high powered sports bike background the NC ticks every box for me in terms of commuting and lightweight European tours. It's cheap to buy, cheap to insure, cheap to run, cheap to maintain, has a good deal of accessories including 3rd party ones so soon after release from the likes of R&G and Hepco & Becker luggage. It's a no brainer for me.

Only problem is which colour. White or Red? My Street Triple R is white.

fishmanboy
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Re: HONDA NC700X

Cheers for the heads up on the poke front, I will make sure I find a good strech of motorway to make sure it has enough go for me. My riding style for my commute generally finds me short shifting anyway, I find the vtwin engine in the sv doesn't like to be cained anyway so I generally just use it's touque to 6k rpm and shift up so I think I'd get on ok with the NC... It is of course nice to have that extra RPM sometimes, but I guess you can have everything lol

I guess mpg does come down to how to ride, thinking back to when my SV was new and I was running it in (5,500 rpm max) I got a couple of trips to return 70mpg... That's dropped to about 60 now, which is still good in my opinion. If only it didn't need servicing every 5 minutes and was a bit more comfy I wouldnt have to raid my piggy bank again for another bike haha

I will let you know how i get on when I have a test ride in a couple of weeks

Cheers for your help

pittsy
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Re: HONDA NC700X

Why don't more bikes use belt drive? Here's how I see it.

At first glance, it seems the ideal solution, offering the virtues of chain, without the drawbacks. Also, the virtues of shaft, without the drawbacks. Except it isn't that straightforward. The humble roller chain situation is much like that of the humble telescopic fork. It has drawbacks but, with a bit of evolution, has seen off all competitors as the overall best solution.

Final drive roller chain is the most cost effective solution from a manufacturing point of view, by a long way I would think. And, arguably, also from an ownership point of view. The one big drawback, one which still leaves the door open for other designs, is lubrication. It is messy. It makes a mess of the machine. It makes a mess of the rider (and pillion). If it's not carried out diligently, especially in winter, it will drastically shorten the life of the chain an sprockets. Another, smaller, drawback is adjustment. With the advent of O ring chains, this issue is nowhere near as bad as it used to be. Nowhere near as frequent. The O ring prolongs the life of the chain (and sprockets, indirectly) and prolongs the adjustment period.

What about belt drive? Surely this does everything the chain does, but with no lubrication. It still needs adjusting, but very, very infrequently. In fact I'd not be surprised to learn that modern set ups require no tension adjustment during the life of the belt?

So why aren't they everywhere?

When I say "Belt drive" I mean HTD drive. This seems to be the format that everyone uses, probably because it has the best torque rating (I'll stand correcting on that statement because there maybe recent designs which surpass HTD torque ratings).

IMO:

There are a few drawbacks, which effectively limit the use of belt to relatively low power, relatively low speed machines. There will be exceptions no doubt.

Highest on the list is probably the fact that HTD belts, to work at their best, need quite a high pre tension. Without this pre tension the HTD tooth will not sit into its "groove" properly and will wear or shear off. This pre tension, when added to the tension created when torque is transmitted, places high loads on shatfs, bearings and (rear) pulley mountings. Not to mention the " chassis". Everything therefore has to be "beefier" and therefore more costly. This high pre tension means that, although the belt appears elastic, when installed it offers little shock absorption. So building cushioning into the rear pulley, whilst accommodating the high tension is not so easy.

Next, that pre tension needs to remain fairly uniform as the suspension moves up and down. This means placing shafts and pivot points in precisely the right place. It may mean the use of a jockey pulley. This in turn creates additional heat, wear and probably more important, it saps precious power (we're talking "low" power machines, so we can't afford to throw away another few percent). It adds cost too.

Then we've got the fact that, as we go to higher and higher power machines (resulting in higher rear wheel torque), the belt width is a serious design problem. To keep the belt width manageable, you'd need larger diameter pulleys. This in turn is a serious problem, trying to package the system into a bike rear end. Also larger diameter pulleys mean higher (circumferential) belt speeds. There is a limit on that, so the designer is caught between a rock and a hard place. Wider belt or larger pulley?

Last on the list, but still a problem eventually. How to get the belt out, without dismantling half the bike?

Until we start seeing titanium shaft drives with kryptonite bevel gears, I think the humble roller chain will be around for a good while yet. I think we may yet see a return to the good old chain case! Remember the old Honda Benley and CD185?

edgey999
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Re: HONDA NC700X

Hi

Here are a couple of pics, first of my NC and second the Tutoro oiler fitted.

Regards

DSCF1804.JPG DSCF1805.JPG
unconventional rebel
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Re: HONDA NC700X

I'm not an engineer, and I hear what people who are more knowledgable than I am are saying, but I still don't understand what is wrong with shaft drive for non-sporting bikes?

The CX500 was a fairly lightweight bike with a shaft, nearly 30 years and who knows how many miles later I've still never heard of one going wrong, and that bike was a dispatch riders favourite - surely a good test of a machine! Ditto the GT750 and XJ900, and what about the Goldwing?

Guzzi (not known for their high weight) have used shaft from the begining (even in the Le Mans/sport models) and the only faults seem to be with normal bearing wear - and that's from high milage bikes, as in 50 - 100 thousand miles.

Shafts are used in pretty much every other rear wheel drive vehicle from 44 ton artics to Robin Reliants. They are normally reliable, dead easy to maintain, mess free and impervious to weather etc... The torque reaction can be a bit unusual but you soon forget all about it, it never need affect the actual ride.

As has been said, cost??

Nice bike edgey!

pittsy
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Re: HONDA NC700X

UcR: "........what is wrong with shaft drive for non-sporting bikes?"

Nothing! It's brilliant.

UcR: "The torque reaction can be a bit unusual but you soon forget all about it,"

I agree!

UcR: "it never need affect the actual ride."

Er, not sure that one stands 100% up to scrutiny. But I know where you're coming from.

Having said that I put 30,000 miles on a CX500 I can't recall ever having to compensate for the fact it was shaft drive. Even pushed to the limit. In context, for it's time, looks aside, it was a very well thought out machine. That's what made it a bit different. It was fully thought out, from front to back, in an engineering sense. I can sometimes tell my R1200R has a shaft but then it is a 100 bhp+ machine, with excellent brakes, and I like to ride on roads which happen to offer a less than perfect surface!

UcR, I hope you don't misunderstand me. I'm not out to attack any one thing. Just to explore and analyse. I love the variety out there. Too many bikes. Too little time (and money!)

unconventional rebel
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Re: HONDA NC700X

No problem Pittsy, I know no one is on the offensive here. I find the comments very informative - which is why I like this forum.

Really my post is an attempt to understand these things better in the light of my own experience.

I realise that chain/belt drive is more efficient and gives a better ride etc...., it's just that I don't really notice the difference in a way that effects my enjoyment of the bike on a day today basis. Probably my riding style.

Regarding chains at least it does impact a little in that gear changes go off when the chain isn't set just right, and they need lubing one way or another, and I've always got something better to do with my time than clean chains....

As you say 'vive la difference'! Never been a better choice of excellent bikes.

Captain Scarlet
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Re: HONDA NC700X

Pits, I do remember the CD! Some very points made objectively and clearly. Although I'm not sure the setup used in the belt driven F800ST is any noticeably "beefier" than that of the F800GS for instance? And proportionally percentage wise Harley's don't lose any more power from crank to rear wheel on a dyno than a conventional chain-driven big-bore v-twin on face value?

However, I do very much appreciate you taking the time to educate me (and presumably others) on the finer points of this propulsion method. And I would say, that if the likes of yourself/Jag and the other more technically inclined members were able to, a cut and past of the above into a fresh thread discussing the veritable pros and cons of the three common drive systems (chain, belt, shaft), would make a very good read and importantly a good future source of research/reminder material, whenever people like myself forget why manufacturers have drawn the conclusions that they have and in deciding what might be best for ourselves to choose in our next rides moving forwards. Thanking you in advance! ;-D

Top banana Edgy! I'm gonna get me one of them and fit it to my next bike. I don't care if it's got a kevlar-belt, shaft-drive or anything, it's still getting a coating in oil! ;-D

I like Edgy's red 'un, but personally I'd go for a white one Gunshot. I like the white and whenever I ride a white bike, it just about halves the amount of tin-box idiots that pull out in front of me. Still your Trumpets a white one. So maybe get a red one, then a blue bike and be truly patriotic!

pittsy
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Re: HONDA NC700X

UcR & cap'n, thanks for your comments. Please, fire some more. My mission is to learn. Sometimes that means amending any lingering misunderstandings, which, after the initial denting of ego, is actually a good thing.

I had thought of starting a new thread as I hate to bog down these. But, I then reasoned that what I was thinking is relevant to the general direction of discussion.

fishmanboy
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Re: HONDA NC700X

Loving the belt/ chain/ prop shaft info above... I think all systems have pros and cons, but I think the reason most companies go with the chain option is it is the cheapest option. The other options would add cost to the intial sale value and thats what puts them off as they know we the bike buying publis love a bargain.

In terms of belt and shaft drives i'm sure if same reserch was put into them as say the current batch of ABS systems (i'm sure Mr Ash has an article on here about how huge and expensive the first ABS systems were compared to where we are now) then I bet we would have an inexpensive, maintenance free, non performance detracting solution. But I guess until we the buying public start demanding things like this then the big companies aren't gonna give it a thought.... but ya never know lol

Oh and I remember my old MZ ETZ 251 had a fully enclosed chain that only needed oil every couple of thousand miles or so... happy days!! (The rest of the bike was a pile of **** though haha)

shuggiemac
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Re: HONDA NC700X

fishmanboy wrote:

Oh and I remember my old MZ ETZ 251 .......(The rest of the bike was a pile of **** though haha)

Oh how can you say such a thing??? I hope you are wearing rubber soled boots for when the lightning bolt strikes. These quirky bikes are what keeps the whole thing interesting :-) I would also warrant that an ETZ will outlive most other things, they will be there along with cockroaches after Armageddon, though admittedly not of much mutual use to each other.

fishmanboy
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Re: HONDA NC700X

OK I agree... A little harsh in hindsight... I take some of it back :-)

I did have some fun on it, never had a bike since that liked to wheelie so much haha (not also intentionally). The bike did have some other virtues too. I'm sure i crashed it once and it cost me about £30 to repair (new clocks, headlight, brake leaver, grips, pegs etc)... try repairing a japanese bike for that kinda cash lol.... although I doubt most jap bikes would have crashed in the same scenario though (handling wasn't the MZ's strong point)

Also it had a centre stand as standard.... not as an optional (cost) extra... anyone else remember those happy days?? haha and while I'm in grumpy old man mode who else misses the smell of 2-stroke oil burning away in the morning?? :-)

shuggiemac
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Re: HONDA NC700X

Aha - I can see another convert on the horizon. You'll soon be joining Silvercub, Rocca and I in the appreciation of all things of this ilk and indeed others to boot.

Spanny
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Re: HONDA NC700X

After my test drive on the 2nd of feb on a brand new white NC700X , I am also hooked (the S and scooter models are not avaulable in South Africa yet)..... awaiting delivery of a silver one (no ABS available yet) at the end of the February .....Selling price in South Africa is R65 000 ..... got a discount of R2 100 for a "cash deal".....which makes this bike quite a steal....

Didn't find it too heavy (specially comparing it to the 1200GS I traded in recently) found it to be quite agile and comfortable (compared to the Harley Nightster and Ducati 996 that it will be sharing garage space with)....

I am looking forward to taking delivery soon.....must just get used to the indicator switch position , and get rid of that horrid looking licence plate/tail light/rear indicator assembly...is anyone making a "tail tidy" for the NC700X yet ?

Spanny
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Re: HONDA NC700X

After my test drive on the 2nd of feb on a brand new white NC700X , I am also hooked (the S and scooter models are not avaulable in South Africa yet)..... awaiting delivery of a silver one (no ABS available yet) at the end of the February .....Selling price in South Africa is R65 000 ..... got a discount of R2 100 for a "cash deal".....which makes this bike quite a steal....

Didn't find it too heavy (specially comparing it to the 1200GS I traded in recently) found it to be quite agile and comfortable (compared to the Harley Nightster and Ducati 996 that it will be sharing garage space with)....

I am looking forward to taking delivery soon.....must just get used to the indicator switch position , and get rid of that horrid looking licence plate/tail light/rear indicator assembly...is anyone making a "tail tidy" for the NC700X yet ?

fishmanboy
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Re: HONDA NC700X

shuggiemac wrote:
Aha - I can see another convert on the horizon. You'll soon be joining Silvercub, Rocca and I in the appreciation of all things of this ilk and indeed others to boot.

Youll have a fully paid up member of the 'hack' motorcycle club here haha

Spanny wrote:
I am looking forward to taking delivery soon.....must just get used to the indicator switch position.

Whats wrong with the indicator switch location? You are the second person to comment on it

fishmanboy
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Re: HONDA NC700X

Spanny wrote:
is anyone making a "tail tidy" for the NC700X yet ?

Found this for you:
http://www.rg-racing.com/browseType/Tail_Tidies/Honda/NC700X/LP0114BK.aspx

Seems like they do a fair bit of kit already for the NC700x

pittsy
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Re: HONDA NC700X

Fishmanboy: " I remember my old MZ ETZ 251 had a fully enclosed chain "

Was the MZ system the one that had top and bottom rubber "tunnels" ? One bike did back then. Can't remember which one.

pittsy
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Re: HONDA NC700X

Cap'n: "I'm not sure the setup used in the belt driven F800ST is any noticeably "beefier" than that of the F800GS for instance? And proportionally percentage wise Harley's don't lose any more power from crank to rear wheel on a dyno than a conventional chain-driven big-bore v-twin on face value?"

See "belt drives" thread.

:-)

Rocker66
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Re: HONDA NC700X

pittsy wrote:
Fishmanboy: " I remember my old MZ ETZ 251 had a fully enclosed chain "

Was the MZ system the one that had top and bottom rubber "tunnels" ? One bike did back then. Can't remember which one.


It certainly was. I remember my ETZ251 with affection. It is a very underrated bike. On one occassion I rode it fully loaded with camping gear from home in kent to N.Wales in february for the dragon rally.just after arriving I got a message to say that there was a problem at home so I rode straight back again. On arrival back home the bike had run perfectly and I felt fresh enough to do it all again. I have had bigger and more expensive bikes of which that wouldn't be true

Rocker66
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Re: HONDA NC700X

The switches have the horn button and indicator switch reversed. This is the same on the VFR1200 and I soon got used to it on that. In fact I found it more awkward swapping from the VFR to the Deauville than it was the other way round

pittsy
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Re: HONDA NC700X

Rocker66: "I remember my ETZ251 with affection."

Ran one as a winter hack a long time ago, circa '78. You could lean em over to ridiculous angles. I rode right off the edge of the tyres on mine. Laughed. Kicked the footrest straight and rode on. Never had a single problem but in all honesty, it wasn't my cup o tea.

Rocker66
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Re: HONDA NC700X

At the time my financial situation was not good so the MZ was better than nothing at all. I still rate the MZ as a better bike than the Yamaha XS750 that I had from new

fishmanboy
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Re: HONDA NC700X

We could start a whole new MZ appreciation thread at this rate haha :-)

scrumpymike
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Re: HONDA NC700X

Interesting bike and interesting posts. I'm on the point of ordering but got a shock when I asked my local dealer to e-mail me his service charges for the bike: 600-miler at £129, then 8k at £415!! I'm going to do a bgit more investigation but these charges appear to be at odds with the 'economy' claims for the NC700. I'm wondering if this is just my dealer seaking to cover the 'lifetime warranty' that they are offering anyone who buys a new bike and has it serviced by them. Have any of you looked into service costs for this bike? BTW, the dealer in question charges £60/hr labour and allocates 6hrs to the 8k service.

scrumpymike
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Re: HONDA NC700X

Interesting bike and interesting posts. I'm on the point of ordering but got a shock when I asked my local dealer to e-mail me his service charges for the bike: 600-miler at £129, then 8k at £415!! I'm going to do a bgit more investigation but these charges appear to be at odds with the 'economy' claims for the NC700. I'm wondering if this is just my dealer seaking to cover the 'lifetime warranty' that they are offering anyone who buys a new bike and has it serviced by them. Have any of you looked into service costs for this bike? BTW, the dealer in question charges £60/hr labour and allocates 6hrs to the 8k service.

gunshot72
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Re: HONDA NC700X

I was actually told £120 to £150 for the first service but I just cannot believe the 8000 mile service would be £415! The valves clearances aren't even checked until 16,000 I've been told. If it is that high then I'll just service it myself with a knocked off service manual. FSH is not really going to keep an already cheap bike's price high anyway if it ever gets sold on.

Captain Scarlet
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Re: HONDA NC700X

Fishy, I think the first ABS system (K100 in '83 I fink?) weighed 14.5 kg. The latest Beemer offerings are 2.5 kg I believe, truly significantly different. Bodes well for say the KTM Freewind eBike which is already the equivalent of 30 hp at 6k revs with max torque (30 lb.ft) from 500 revs onwards, spawning truly exceptional bikes in the future? Hydrogen might be a better solution in theory, but the whole vehicle industry are throwing their efforts into electric for the hybrid and full-electric solutions, and I think the bikes will follow soon enough. I.e. At the current pace maybe we'll be junking our petrol based bikes in a decades time? The Freewind uses chain drive!

Castrol R, now there's a real-man's cologne if ever there was one!

Spanny, a white X is the right combo!

Rocker66
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Re: HONDA NC700X

I can remember way back when we would add a drop of Castrol R to the petrol just for the smell. Oh the joys of youth :)